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December 10, 2004

Catalonia is not Spain... It's just a part of it

Many questions from other countries... Of course in democracy everything can be argued so this is only my point of view: In Catalonia some politicians want to create their own paradise based on an invented national identity and historical rights that are supposed to replace the individual rights granted by the Spanish Constitution. Many Catalans are following their game and they are winning. As easy as that, the freedom of the individuals substituted by the freedom of the country. Europe erasing borders and Catalonia drawing them.
A wonderful country with wonderful people led to the middle age by politicians who did not learn anything from the XXth Century.
Just one advice: If you defend this argument in Barcelona nobody will hit you but you will be considered a fascist.
http://www.convivenciacivica.org

Posted by antonio at December 10, 2004 04:29 PM

Comments

All that's not TRUE.
Catalonia has nearly 7 millions of people. And nearly all this people want to be another country diferent of Spain ( not only "some politicians want to create their own paradise based on an invented national").

Catalonia, until 1714 was a country. It had own Kings, languaje, rights, culture. Then it is not INVENTED, as you are saying.

Anyway, actually, we are diferent. We have another culture, another languaje, another personality. We feel Catalan. We heve not invented something.

You say " the freedom of the individuals substituted by the freedom of the country"

Nearly all the country wants to be independent, Not individuals. In the 60's arrived to Catalonia, people form anothers parts of Spain, and they say not to be another country. They are the individuals, not us. You are confused.

Do you live in Catalonia, for to be sure what are you saying?. Do you know our reality?.

Do you know that since 1714 the Catalan people, has been followed?. Do you konw that our languaje has been prohibed?. Our Catalan presindent LLuis Companys was killed by the Fascim?.
Do you know that the first city in all Europe bombed by NAZIS airplains was Barcelona?.
Do you know that during more than 150 years Barcelona and its people was pointed by spanish canons?.
Do you konw someting about the Catalan Kings?.

Do you know something about it?.
I DON'T THINK SO!

Posted by: Xavier at March 17, 2005 10:54 AM

Maybe my mistake was not introducing myself on the weblog: I am Catalan, so I know my country and its history very well.
I have to recognise, anyhow, that I dont know anything about the Catalan kings, but maybe that's just because there was never a Catalan Crown and the kings were actually Kings of Aragon, Crown that included the current Catalonia.

About the rest I know a bit: about other parts of Spain with their own language, people who suffered and died under fascism, cities with not one single personality but hundreds, the personality of the Greeks, the Romans, the Arabs the Cartaginensis, the Saxons. People with traditions, history, kings, heros. People who suffered dictatorships, canons, and nazi bombings. People who had to leave everything, family, lands, dreams, because Franco took care of enriching only the North of Spain.
People who, like us the Catalans, have a past of pain and suffering, but know that splitting and differenciating people and territories makes things only worse.
There is not a single land in the world that has not suffered the pain of tirany during its history. And there is not a single problem in History solved by creating more borders.
The Spanish Civil War was not a war of Catalans against Spanish, was a war of Spanish against Spanish, of Catalans against Catalans. The rest is just infamy and villainy.
I dont know you, Xavier, but I have blood from Catalonia, from Andalusia, from Madrid, from Extremadura, from Euskadi, and, I hope, from Greece, from Rome, from Istanbul, from Marocco... My personality, my identity, is not defined by the place were I was born (a wonderful Mediterranian town I love in the North of Catalonia) but by my parents, my ancestors, my religion and my experience
As Catalan, I dont want to be one of 7 million people with clean blood, homogenous personality and language and a Glorious but unlucky History, but a free man among 50 million with heterogeneous character dirty blood and a Real History with lights and shadows.
Que los pueblos libres son todos iguales chaval, en todos hay héroes e hijoputas, que he visto más hecho diferencial en Mérida que en Sarrià, y que ,por más que se pongan, cuatro paletos metidos a Consellers no van a cambiar la historia de Cataluña, y mucho menos la del resto de España.
Que manda cojones que tenga que venir un catetillo anclado en el 34 a darme lecciones a mí de historia, de estadística, de libertad y, sobretodo, de Cataluña.

Posted by: Antonio at March 17, 2005 11:54 AM

Yes, of course. Catalonia is a Nation but we lost the war against Franco. And in Spain Franco is not died.

We will win our own war, to be an State and then, we will decide our future in Barcelona and not in Madrid.

Note: Catalonia will never forget the President of Catalonia "Lluís Companys" killed by Franco during the spanish civil war. Unique presindent of a country killed by dictators in Europe last century.

Posted by: Oriol at March 30, 2005 04:42 PM

Just two comments because some people is so busy thinking about own wars (sic) that do not have time to study own history:

- The war which our new friend Oriol talks about of Spain against Catalonia ended in Barcelona four weeks before than Madrid fell. While the Franco army entered in the Catalan capital without shooting a single gun, it took them almost two months more and many casualties for both sides to make Madrid surrender. The famous antifascist lema "NO PASARAN" was shouted for the first time in Madrid when Catalonia was already welcoming the fascists.

- The lovely president Lluis Companys was one of the two leaders who tried to make the Republic fall in 1934. The same lovely politician who lead the Catalan government in 1936 when thousands where summary killed in the streets of Barcelona under the accusation of ennemies of the Republic just for studying in Catholic schools or declaring themselves democrats.

Many Catalans will never forget Companys, that's true, as many of us will never forget Franco... I personally will take care of not forgeting any of them since both are symbols of infamy. Symbols of people who still believe in countries and territories as godnesses, who still talk about own wars, who hate individual freedom, who consider people from outside their hometown as ennemies...
Paletos como el amigo Oriol que no tendría ningún problema en pegarme un tiro para ganar su own war y acabar con un mal catalán enemigo de la patria por pensar libremente... como Franco.

Posted by: Antonio at March 30, 2005 06:29 PM

Es increible notar como los españolitos os poneis nerviosos. Tranquilo que nadie os pegará un tiro. En Barcelona salió el doble de gente a la calle para pedir el "no a la guerra" que en Madrid. El dia del 11-M os moriais de ganas que todo eso fuera idea de ETA, así os podiais cargar a los vascos y a los catalanes de un solo tirón. Vosotros seguir con esa chulería hispánica que al final será Melilla y Ceuta quien os va a pagar el "café para todos".

Posted by: Oriol at April 12, 2005 04:24 PM

Have you seen any Hitler images in Germany nowadays?. Have you seen any Musolini images in Italy nowadays?. No because this is terrorism vindication and Franco was an assassin. Our president Companys killed in civil war was an election president. I told.... in Spain Franco is not died, and i think... this is "typical spanish"

Posted by: Oriol at April 12, 2005 04:31 PM

Yo no quería responder pero:
1. Colega, que no te enteras. Que soy catalán. Que estoy tranquilísimo porque nadie me pegará un tiro (aunque no porque tú lo vayas a evitar). Que me juego un brazo a que gano tres veces más que tú y el café me lo pago yo solito.
2. Yes, I have travelled quite a bit and I have seen many monuments of fascism in Italy and nazism in Germany. Esos son los problemas de hablar sin haber salido de la aldea y sólo de oídas... que uno se pilla los dedos cuando abre la boca.

Posted by: Antonio at April 12, 2005 04:35 PM

I don't know what is the problem with "to be a spanish". Do you think if Catalonia makes itself a state, You'll be more free? you're gonna live better? you're gonna earn more? In my opinion we all have to stay together, because each region has its own customs, its own dialects... I'm Murciano and I don't feel different to a Catalan, to a Manchego, to an Andaluz...
p.d. Spanish people (I remind you Catalans are still spanish) aren't fascist. There are more than 20 million of people that is progresist in Spain. Perhaps, the real fascist are the people who think like a fanatic like you.

Posted by: Antonio at March 11, 2006 01:33 AM

Hola Tocayo,
espero que lo de fanático no vaya por mí...
y si es así, releete el post, que me parece que no me has entendido.

Un saludo
Antonio

Posted by: Anonio at May 7, 2006 10:07 PM

Supposing Catalonia becomes an independent nation, what will happen to FC Barcelona?

If the city of Barcelona is no longer in Spain, then it's football team should not be allowed to play in the Spanish league anymore (against Real Madrid, Valencia, etc.)

Are there other teams in Catalonia for FC Barcelona to play against?

Regards,
Saint George (from England)

Posted by: Saint George at May 17, 2006 12:54 PM

If Catalonia becomes an independent nation then it is gona be a good chance for them to the liga cause Rear Madrid is not their.

Joke

Posted by: good chance at October 24, 2008 01:37 AM